Curse

Omega X · Aug 07, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52

I've been thinking a bit about this and the chapter flavors. It seems that they are creating companion classes to round everything off.

Does this make sense or am I imagining it?

For example:

Type - Type --Area
------------------------
Melee - Caster --Tier
------------------------

Warrior - Elementalist -- Main Tier

Assassin - Mesmer -- Support (Offense)

Paragon - Monk -- Support (Defense)

Dervish - Necro -- Buff/Melee

Ranger - Ritualist -- Buff/Ranged

--------------

Of course it could be arranged a number of ways because many (or all) of the classes cross over well into both brackets. But this is the way I see it. They are filling in gaps where some classes just could not do on their own.

I also noticed that in this configuration, most of them seem to fall into their respective "God" brackets(based on information available) with the exception of the Ele(which respects the god where the element came from) and Melandru. Which seems to have only one class follower, the Ranger. And the Ranger bracket is probably the only muddy spot because the Paragon tend to fill that area on the caster side, only its a melee type class(When I say melee, it refers to the class' primary weapon i.e Not Magic based). Which makes me believe even more that these "flavor" classes are filling in gaps. It also opens up more possibilities obviously.

The way I came up with it is probably a little confusing. Warriors and Elementalists are probably the the most equaled in their respective brackets, and they "seem" to be easy classes. And they are also first thought of when you mention caster or melee.

Second was the Offensive support in the both classes. Support for a Warrior would be the current Assassin because he is more useful after the Warrior takes the attention for them to slip in. The Mesmer would be his equal, hurting anyone heavily that tries to harm other casters.

Support Defense Melee would be the Paragon for their obvious defensive capabilities. Support caster would be the Monk, healing and aiding the wounded and making sure they never got hurt in the first place(protect monk?).

Now Dervish and Necros are capable of a number of things, some of which is providing backup to the front lines via minions, group attacks and conditional infliction.

And finally Rangers and Ritualists which can provide much ranged support and buffs from behind the lines and can make a team even more rock solid.

Just thought it was something I should share. If it doesn't matter, call me crazy and carry on.

fiery · Aug 07, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

I agree completly with the above chart, seems new classes are either going into offense/defense or support.

Hella Good · Aug 07, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

The Dervish is basically a melee caster, the Paragon- a ranged Tactics warrior. I think they mentioned that the idea of the new profs is to add new game mechanics. For example, Sins added movement control to the game with their zapping abilities, Rits - positioning with their Spirits. Dervishes are pack hunters- bunch up at your own peril kinda thing; Paragons are party augmenting battle commanders.

But it is true that there seems to be a pattern- one prof is normally supportive, other is normally offensive; one is normally a caster, other is normally a fighter type. Sin - offensive/fighter, Rit- supportive/caster, D - offensive/caster, P - supportive/fighter. Also the supportive prof has skills that are not easily countered- Rit - Weapon Spells, Item Spells, Binding Rituals; P- Shouts, Chants, Echos; while the offensive prof has- it seems- just one hard to counter type of skills- Sins - shadow stepping skills, D- forms.

Omega X · Aug 07, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

That comparison supports the chart quite well.

Cjlr · Aug 07, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

It's just too bad elementalists don't actually do any good as primary damage-dealers...

Omega X · Aug 08, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjlr

It's just too bad elementalists don't actually do any good as primary damage-dealers...

I think that depends on the build. My air ele does plenty damage. And so did she when I was running an earth build.

I mean If Eles were so bad, then why put them in any type of group? An Ele would be a waste of time yes? They should be discriminated against just like Assassins and Mesmers. Yet, they are a key part of a good group. People still want them in groups.

I haven't came across any player in game that thought Eles weren't good damage dealers. But I always read that here in some obscure thread.

Skyy High · Aug 08, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

They're horribly inefficient damage dealers, that's the problem. If you expend energy like crazy, you can deal a massive amount of damage very quickly, however when people say that "eles can't deal damage", they mean that they can't deal a lot of damage over a prolonged period of time.

Hella Good · Aug 08, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Good Lord! Why does EVERY thread have to turn into eledramatics? Shoo! Go complain in the threads that are filled with other eledramatic people! There is like 2 on this very forum page! How did basic separation of profs end up being ele whine? They should offer councelling for Eles on these forums- would be a winning business.

xBakox · Aug 08, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

If your talking about PvP, plenty of builds have eles. There are warders, starbursts, and nukers in HA and water snares or air eles in GvG. Stop complainng about them.

On topic..

I think that chart is quite good...though the ritualist seems to fall more under "Defense" and Paragon under "Buff/ranged", unless your just talking about their spirits.

Sli Ander · Aug 08, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Thanks for the chart, its well thought out. I hope they do continue to add classes this way, more variety is always better in my opinion.
Off topic slightly-Plus people can grab a class for a specific purpose, like using the Paragon as a buff commander, instead of having someone who is too busy fighting/healing to direct the battle.

Omega X · Aug 08, 2006, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by xBakox

On topic..

I think that chart is quite good...though the ritualist seems to fall more under "Defense" and Paragon under "Buff/ranged", unless your just talking about their spirits.

Well, the way I perceived it was that Paragon has defensive capabilities like chants and shouts. Since their primary weapon is a Spear, it falls under Melee. I put Rits under Buff/Ranged because their spirits affect the area much like Ranger rituals and can attack from behind the lines without endangering themselves like Rangers can. Paragons could very well be put in Support Offense but not much is known if they can out do Assassins in that department. They can also protect casters from melee enemies by drawing fire so that's another reason why they can be considered Defensive assuming that the armor will be 80-AL like Warriors.

I'm not saying that it is what it is. But it makes sense.

EDIT:

Another way you can compare them is based on primary function instead of Tier.

------------------------
Class - Class --Primary Function
------------------------

Warrior - Paragon -- Front Line Melee

Elementalist - Mesmer -- Offensive Caster

Ritualist - Monk -- Defensive Caster

Dervish - Assassin -- Second Line Melee

Ranger - Necro -- Ranged Support

----------------------

In that case Mesmer and Necro can be swapped back and fourth. But it depends on the build.

Lordhelmos · Aug 08, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Good Lord! Why does EVERY thread have to turn into eledramatics? Shoo! Go complain in the threads that are filled with other eledramatic people! There is like 2 on this very forum page! How did basic separation of profs end up being ele whine? They should offer councelling for Eles on these forums- would be a winning business.

When every single time the word ele is mentioned and someone comes up with a rant or a problem... it usually means theres a problem.

Lordhelmos · Aug 08, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

This is the way I kinda see it:

---------------

PRIMARY FRONTLINE/MELEE DAMAGE DEALERS (Frontline):

Warrior, Dervish, Ranger (Thumper and Touchers).

---------------

MID RANGE SUPPORT DAMAGE AND EFFECTS (Midline):

Ranger (Choking Gas/Trapper/Spirit Spam), Assassin (AoD hit and run), Paragon (Chant/Support).

---------------

CASTERS AND FULL SUPPORT (backline):

Ritualist (Rit Lord), Mesmer (Shutdown/E-denial/Fast Cast), Necro (Bloodspike, FOC, Orders/Taint-Ward), Monk (Smite/RC Prot/Boonprot/WoH/Infuser.)

Yanman.be · Aug 08, 2006, 06:58 AM // 06:58

I'd put Necro and Rit together...buffs, minions etc.

War and Dervish

Monk and Paragon ( or Rit restoration magic )

Elementalist and Mesmer

Ranger Dervish

Omega X · Aug 08, 2006, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

This is the way I kinda see it:

---------------

PRIMARY FRONTLINE/MELEE DAMAGE DEALERS (Frontline):

Warrior, Dervish, Ranger (Thumper and Touchers).

---------------

MID RANGE SUPPORT DAMAGE AND EFFECTS (Midline):

Ranger (Choking Gas/Trapper/Spirit Spam), Assassin (AoD hit and run), Paragon (Chant/Support).

---------------

CASTERS AND FULL SUPPORT (backline):

Ritualist (Rit Lord), Mesmer (Shutdown/E-denial/Fast Cast), Necro (Bloodspike, FOC, Orders/Taint-Ward), Monk (Smite/RC Prot/Boonprot/WoH/Infuser.)

From a Builds perspective that would be correct. But primary class relations are then out of the window.

drekmonger · Aug 08, 2006, 08:21 AM // 08:21

A bit on a tangent, another pattern:

For each ele attribute, there is an associated god. Each of the core classes is also most strongly associated with a god. (with some obvious crossover for the monk in the smite line)

Code:

Element   God      1st class   2nd class
---------------------------------------------------------
Air    - Dywana    - Monk    -Ritualist?
Water  - Grenth    - Necro   -Chapter 4 class?
Earth  - Melandru  - Ranger  -Assassin?
Fire   - Balthazar - Warrior -Paragon?
Energy - Lyssa     - Mesmer  -Chapter 4 class?
All    - All Gods  - Ele     -Dervish?

The newer classes may also be weakly associated with a god from the above list. The clue, I believe, is in the type of elemental damage they tend to deal with spells.

Assassin spells that deal elemental damage cause Earth damage. While Assassins aren't tree-huggers, I believe they are associated with Melandru--the same aspect of Melandru that represents ranger's trapping and poisoning abilities. Noteworthy, some assassin attacks have animals in their names.

Rit spells deal lighting (ie, air) damage. They are able to summon up bound spirits and the ashes of honored ancestors (of which Dywana holds some dominion as the keeper of the "good" afterlife) and have the restoration line. They are, in my mind, most obviously associated with Dywana. Noteworthy, rits and monks are the only classes in the game with rez spells...which fits into to Dywana's role.

Paragons have adrenaline and fire attacks. Balthazar.

Dervish have avatar forms of all the gods, and can deal a variety of elemental types of damage. They are probably like the elementalists -- a class that draws from all gods.

That leaves Grenth and Lyssa as the remaining gods to not have a second class. I suspect, in chapter 4, there will be a class that deals cold/dark damage with ties to Grenth. Also, there will be a class that deals chaos damage and has other effects that could be associated with Lyssa.

Yanman.be · Aug 08, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Lyssa = assassin

Carl Butanananowski · Aug 08, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Type - Type --Area
------------------------
Melee - Caster --Tier
------------------------

Warrior - Elementalist -- Main Tier

Assassin - Mesmer -- Support (Offense)

Paragon - Monk -- Support (Defense)

Dervish - Necro -- Buff/Melee

Ranger - Ritualist -- Buff/Ranged

I think this is the most accurate and easiest to follow.
Kudos.

floppinghog · Aug 08, 2006, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by drekmonger

A bit on a tangent, another pattern:

For each ele attribute, there is an associated god. Each of the core classes is also most strongly associated with a god. (with some obvious crossover for the monk in the smite line)

Code:

Element   God      1st class   2nd class
---------------------------------------------------------
Air    - Dywana    - Monk    -Ritualist?
Water  - Grenth    - Necro   -Chapter 4 class?
Earth  - Melandru  - Ranger  -Assassin?
Fire   - Balthazar - Warrior -Paragon?
Energy - Lyssa     - Mesmer  -Chapter 4 class?
All    - All Gods  - Ele     -Dervish?

The newer classes may also be weakly associated with a god from the above list. The clue, I believe, is in the type of elemental damage they tend to deal with spells.

Assassin spells that deal elemental damage cause Earth damage. While Assassins aren't tree-huggers, I believe they are associated with Melandru--the same aspect of Melandru that represents ranger's trapping and poisoning abilities. Noteworthy, some assassin attacks have animals in their names.

Rit spells deal lighting (ie, air) damage. They are able to summon up bound spirits and the ashes of honored ancestors (of which Dywana holds some dominion as the keeper of the "good" afterlife) and have the restoration line. They are, in my mind, most obviously associated with Dywana. Noteworthy, rits and monks are the only classes in the game with rez spells...which fits into to Dywana's role.

Paragons have adrenaline and fire attacks. Balthazar.

Dervish have avatar forms of all the gods, and can deal a variety of elemental types of damage. They are probably like the elementalists -- a class that draws from all gods.

That leaves Grenth and Lyssa as the remaining gods to not have a second class. I suspect, in chapter 4, there will be a class that deals cold/dark damage with ties to Grenth. Also, there will be a class that deals chaos damage and has other effects that could be associated with Lyssa.

i see your points very well. i can't wait for chapter 4 info cause... well i wanna see what they are going to come up with next... its so amazing how paragon and dervish just pop up with what they can do.....

really what kind of twists can they come up with in terms of what you suggest has no ties to? hmmmm

though if you do think about, assassin's really r... mesmer/warrior/ranger mix up
ritualists are also simlar to monk/necro/ranger
its hard to separate an entire class, i suspect a twisted class with things that can bring instant energy to a team in the area and use energy of a team for dmg or buffs, you know? thats a werid idea.

Sakashi · Aug 08, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by drekmonger

A bit on a tangent, another pattern:

For each ele attribute, there is an associated god. Each of the core classes is also most strongly associated with a god. (with some obvious crossover for the monk in the smite line)

Code:

Element   God      1st class   2nd class
---------------------------------------------------------
Air    - Dywana    - Monk    -Ritualist?
Water  - Grenth    - Necro   -Chapter 4 class?
Earth  - Melandru  - Ranger  -Assassin?
Fire   - Balthazar - Warrior -Paragon?
Energy - Lyssa     - Mesmer  -Chapter 4 class?
All    - All Gods  - Ele     -Dervish?

The Ritualist's god is Grenth, Assassin's is Lyssa.